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Lowetide
Very enjoyable article, and the conclusion of “everything is worth it when you win” really got me thinking about how, duh, obviously that’s right, but also… is it? If you trade Gretzky then win Stanley, did you do the right thing? I’m trying to apply ethical concepts to hockey, let’s see if this works. Instead of asking “what is the most moral action” we’re asking “what is the action most likely to result in winning?”
Consequentialist ethics are those that are focused on results. “The ends justifies the means” is very well know, as is “the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.” Different iterations of the same principle. These systems are easiest to use to justify actions that would be immoral under other systems.
Deontological ethics are those that are focused on following the correct rules, such as the Charter of Rights and Freedoms or the Categorical Imperative. These systems are the most likely to have ruinous consequences; if you do the right thing and the world burns as a result, you still did the right thing.
Stoicism teaches that you should not feel upset about things beyond your control. For sport, this means you can control your training, nutrition, effort, etc, but you cannot control whether you win or not, therefore, you should not care whether you win or not. https://existentialcomics.com/comic/179
Okay, all useful but flawed ideas. It occurs to me that a lot of back-and-forth between different hockey schools of thought parallels these ideas. So, reasonable, well-informed adults would be likely to view the following things in the following ways:
Resigning a streaky 40 year old goalie to be your starter for the next two years when you are in Win Now mode: A consequentialist is happy, because it worked out (so far, *does all the superstitious things*). A deontologist is losing their mind because the body of statistical evidence says this is a losing move. A stoic is only concerned with the choices they had, so they may see it not as “signing a risky goalie” but as “signing the least risky option available.”
That legendary whacky MacT draft pick trade. A consequentialist is unhappy, because it didn’t work. A deontologist may think the correct process was followed and that is what will lead to the best outcomes overall so we should be looking to do it again. A stoic might feel upset because they feel there were better choices we could have made, or might feel fine because how prospects work out is beyond our control, there is often room for disagreements even among reasonable adults with similar paradigms.
Drafting Conner McDavid. Some things are so obvious that they are clearly correct under every reasonable ethical system.
I think Consequentialism is over-represented in the media, who often, to my eye, blindly worship results without ever thinking about how those results were obtained, whether by blind fluke, true skill, heroic effort, foul cheating or zebra job.
I think Deontology is over-represented in the analytics community. Anyone remember the drunk baby meme captioned “So then Dallas says shots matter more than wins?”
I suspect Stoicism is over-represented in the “professional athlete” community. Conner McDavid is the best there is, and he has lost more hockey games than most humans will ever play. Professional athletes need a way to keep their self-image stable through good times and bad while enduring treatment that we would consider abusive if they were happening in other contexts (if I worked a horse as hard as Connor works himself, I would hopefully be shunned. If I posted the kind of personally judgmental comments that some fans regularly post about regular citizens, it would be cyber bullying at best. If I treated my coworkers the way that Brad Marchand does, I’d be in jail. Not judging, just observing that how we treat athletes is weird.)
BLH’s Thoughts: This a post from LT’s comments section from a user named Keeper_13 and I just found the breakdown very interesting and wanted to share it with you. Which category do you find yourself identifying with? Or maybe you feel like you fall into multiple categories depending on the scenario. Let us know in the comments below! Generally, I think I’m more stoic than the others.
Oilersnation
Woodcroft Discusses BOA, Holloway and More
Jay, you pushed a lot of the right buttons at times. Last night you mentioned you switched [Zach] Hyman and [Evander] Kane as it was to get a little bit of a jump in the top line, but also it was matchup related.
- Yeah, I thought that he did a good job with Tkachuk and he had an effect on that player. And, for me I thought that we didn’t love the way that we started last night.
- Hyman was displaying something in the first period that I thought he could help Draisaitl and McDavid and so we wanted to flip that.
- Sometimes you know through experience and through just watching the game within the game, that leads to decisions like that and it worked out for us, so I’m pleased.
Zach Kassian only played two minutes last night, he also got rocked in the second period, he was very slow coming to the bench, was he banged up at all?
- Zach gave us all that he had, his contribution was valuable to our team winning…
- They dressed 11 forwards and seven D. They ended up only playing 10 forwards and so the way that the flow of that game went meant that we had to change our lines…
- But you talk about a heck of a teammate, someone that gives the team everything that he has and he is a big reason why we are moving on to series number three.
What impressed you most about the execution you wanted to implement defensively against the Flames from your defenders that worked so well?
- We’re a group back there that gets the job done by committee. By commitment to fundamentals in the way that we defend by keeping it simple on breakouts.
You were able to implement a system that took away one of Calgary’s strengths which was using their defencemen to activate. How did you do it, what worked to eliminate Calgary’s defencemen for much of it?
- So the way that we want to handle our point man, whether it’s on the strong side or the weak side, there are details that go into that. We wanted to make sure that we were physical on offence.
- We took a little steam out of their D men in their own end first of all, we didn’t want to get beat back up the ice on our rush coverage.
- …their D coming down on pucks, there were just certain things that we wanted to do, counter pinch wise that was able to help us.
Having been with this group since February 10th, what impressed you most in the series win over Calgary?
- Well, in game number one, I thought the score was a little bit flattering. I was happy we came back, but I didn’t love our competition level on 50/50 pucks or our level of execution.
- To see us go out and win game two against really tough circumstances, I was really proud of that.
- We knew Calgary was going to have their moments, but we wanted to make sure we did it harder, and we did it longer, and when you steer the conversation towards your own process, I think that results take care of themselves.
What would be the thought process for you as the head coach to put a rookie like Dylan Holloway in the lineup for the next round?
- I feel quite comfortable with Dylan, the same way that I feel comfortable with Brad Malone, Devin Shore, Derick Brassard, other people who are not currently in the lineup.
- In terms of his availability to be put into the lineup, he is a healthy and available player that our coaching staff can puck if we so choose to.
BLH’s Thoughts: Good non-answer on Holloway. I think LT put it best last week when he was on Gregor’s show when he said at this point in time, the vets are going to get the calls and Edmonton has quite a few (Shore, Brassard, Turris, Malone, etc) sitting in the press box.
That said, Holloway is much better than all of them, but with those young players you have to be willing to live with not only the energy and willingness to get the job done but also the rookie mistakes. Holloway probably belongs in this series with the Avs due to skill set alone, but Woodcroft might feel like the Avs are susceptible if he plays a more physical brand too. Personally, I wouldn’t have a problem if Holloway got in for Foegele in game one just to see how he does. However, I don’t believe that you’d bring in Dylan to be utilized like Kassian and Archie are. So, we’ll see but it appears Woodcroft is pretty tight-lipped on his prized rookie.
I checked Colorado’s 2022 splits from this past year because I was looking for teams they struggled against and there were two teams they struggled with, the Dallas Stars and Columbus Blue Jackets.
Toronto scored a ton against Colorado (12gf-8ga) though and in four games with Nashville the split the series but the goal differential was 16-16 and that has me thinking that if this series is going to be a defensive shit show, we’re going to be in for a ride AND it favours Edmonton.
The Flames thought with their first line (three 40g scorers) that they’d be able to keep pace with the Oilers and they should’ve but for whatever reason Gaudreau, Tkachuk and Lindholm were no-shows and it was probably Backlund, their top defensive forward, who was their best player. Will Edmonton’s top line be so good that it nullifies Landeskog, MacKinnon, and Rantanen leaving Kadri and Nichushkin to bear the scoring responsibilities?
Speaking of Kadri, might Woodcroft match Evander Kane with him as he did Tkachuk in the Calgary series?
I’d heard Makar isn’t 100% and that was early in the 2nd round. If that’s the case, that’s a major blow to Colorado’s chances.
I’m thinking Zach Hyman is going to have his way in the muck with whoever the Avs throw at him too. He made a mockery of Gudbranson and Zadorov in the 2nd round and Colorado most likely will have Jack Johnson and Josh Manson lining up against Hyman’s line.
Speaking of Hyman’s line, who will his center be? As we wait for the 3rd round to commence, Leon Draisaitl is getting healthier and if he can center his own line that will offer Jay Woocroft some more flexibility…
Something that does worry me is Edmonton’s aversion to stopping zone entries sooner because of the speed Colorado has in their top six. I feel like Keith and Bouchard are going to get eaten alive whereas Kulak, Ceci, and Nurse should be able to break even in this aspect at least. I hope Barrie’s footspeed doesn’t let him down in this series.
Lastly, I’ve been very impressed with this group’s decision to commit to playing playoff hockey. I’m talking about great defensive play, hitting, blocking shots, and basically just doing whatever it takes to get the job done. My boy Pulju is a shining example of one guy who’s accepted a role that’s not native to his skillset, but he’s out there crushing guys and taking pucks to the ankle and this is something the hockey gods love. So what did they do to reward him? Gave him a nice juicy blue paint goal to help send Calgary to the brink of elimination.
I don’t know if I see seven games here, but nevertheless, we will be entertained.
Trade Rumors
Spector’s Hockey
- Steve Mcfarlane reports Gaudreau sounded like he’d very much like to remain with the Flames during his end-of-season press conference on Saturday.
- Wes Gilbertson and Daniel Austin report Tkachuk is open to a long-term deal with the Flames.
- SPECTOR’S NOTE: The cost of re-signing Gaudreau and Tkachuk will take a big chunk out of their salary-cap payroll for years. It could end up costing a combined $20 million to keep them in the fold.
- Nick Goss believes the Bruins’ top-three offseason priorities are finding a top-six center, adding a scoring winger and bringing more young players into their lineup.
- Free-agent options include Claude Giroux, Evgeni Malkin and Nazem Kadri but the Bruins would have to clear cap space to add one of them.
- What happens with Jake DeBrusk could affect efforts to add a scoring winger.
- Jimmy Murphy wondered if the Bruins will consider moving blueliner Brandon Carlo in a deal for a top-six center.
- Jeff Marek examined the possible contract comparables for Andrew Copp.
- Marek speculates Copp’s next deal could be somewhere between what Phillip Danault got from the Los Angeles Kings last summer and what Zach Hyman received from the Edmonton Oilers.
The Daily Goal Horn
- So with Aleksander Barkov and Carter Verhaeghe’s extensions kicking in next season, Florida has just under $4 million in cap space to get better. It has sparked rumors that the Panthers will be looking hard to gain more room this summer.
- According to Elliotte Friedman on his latest 32 Thoughts Podcast, he mentioned that the Florida Panthers, in desperate need for cap space looked into trading Bobrovsky.
- Darren Dreger of TSN is indicating that the Habs are very close to announcing a contract extension for Martin St. Louis.
- Evgeni Malkin and Kris Letang are both slated for unrestricted free agency on July 13. A recent report said that Pittsburgh offered them a 3 year-deal worth $5M AAV each. Both considered the offer to be too low.
- The Philadelphia Flyers are searching for a new coach after letting Mike Yeo go. Reports indicate they will be meeting with Barry Trotz this week, but Tortorella rumors are now surfacing.
Dreger now on TSN 1050's Overdrive says that he sees Ken Holland as the only GM giving Evander Kane term to lower the AAV on a new deal. ( 4 or 5 year term). #Oilers #LetsGoOilers
— x- Mohammad Jaber (@Moe_Jaber) May 25, 2022
BLH’s Thoughts: That is right up Holland’s alley and with Koskinen leaving for Switzerland this summer, that’ll open up over $4M. The Oilers will still have to get creative but if Dutch is happy to go into 2022/23 with Skinner and Smith as his goaltending tandem, that will negate the need to spend big on a no.1 goalie and he could use that scratch to re-sign Kane.
Maybe Foegele gets moved and it’s my understanding that they’ll try to get Kassian’s situation worked out this summer too because they can’t have him playing a handful of minutes a night on the 4th line. That said, I do think they’ll bring in some affordable muscle.
Do you think the Oilers will sign a good AHL goalie though? I ask that because I’m not certain that Konovalov, Fanti, or Rodrigues would be good enough to play at the NHL level in a scenario where one of Skinner or Smith get hurt.
