On this week’s 31 Thoughts podcast, Jeff Marek and Elliotte Friedman were talking about the Edmonton Oilers situation and Friedman brought up Peter Chiarelli and why he basically went into hiding and only had a few people around him at the end of his tenure in Edmonton. He said that someone who he thought wasn’t that close to the former Oilers/Bruins GM reached out to him to speak on behalf of Chiarelli and this is what was told to the insider,
FYI: You can listen to the podcast at the bottom end of this post!
“I think he felt that some things he hoped would remain private went public, so he lost trust and that’s why he wasn’t talking to anybody.”
It’s kind of funny. Not once since Chiarelli’s firing did anybody wonder why he became so distant and the end. The majority of the conversation around him was about the quality of the transactions he’d completed.
Friedman said that he would send Chiarelli texts asking him about something he was working on and there would never be a reply, the source of the quote above also commented on that,
“He would get those texts and would be like, “I can’t keep a secret.” And that’s why he wasn’t talking to anybody.”
We heard the Oilers radio colorman, Bob Stauffer, say that in the final months of Chiarelli’s tenure that he was only working with Duane Sutter and Ken Hitchcock. Now, did he feel that those men were to be trusted and everyone else he had in his management staff weren’t to be? Men like current interim GM Keith Gretzky, Craig MacTavish, Scott Howson, Paul Messier, and Chris Cichocki.
Were those gentlemen that source of the leaks coming out of Edmonton? Stauffer seemed to have some pretty good intel on some of the happenings going on in the past… Maybe Peter’s brother Michael was the one.
And if Chiarelli thought that he needed to spend the remaining months of his Oilers career in a bunker, why didn’t he just let go the ones who he thought were breaking his trust? Maybe because it would’ve needed to go through Nicholson and Katz? Do you think Bobby Nicks would’ve greenlit the dismissal of those long-tenured senior management employees? I don’t think so… So I imagine he did what he felt he had to do…
That said, loose lips sink ships…
For what it’s worth, there are few GMs in the league that run a super tight-lipped ship. Stuff gets out. Ron Hextall (Friedman also mentioned that Hextall going solo in PHI was also due to a trust issue) and Ron Francis were known to be a couple and also Lou Lamoriello as well. If Chiarelli though that he was going to go into a market like Edmonton his word was going to stay behind office doors, that’s on him and he could’ve used that in his favor had he been clever enough.
Perhaps he should’ve used the reaction to the some of the rumored deals that got out to gauge the value of said deal?… Just an idea to throw out there. I mean, you never want to do your job according to how the fanbase of your team feels but there can be value found by listening to others too.
As if things weren’t going to slip out with all those ex-GMs in his management team. Did Craig MacTavish not use the media to his advantage when he was running the team? Kevin Lowe too? I can’t really recall Steve Tambellini doing much during his time with the Oilers apart from being a puppet for the OBC!
The Oilers have all these ex-players/management types still working for them and they have very good relationships with the local media… C’mon man… A Harvard educated person should be a bit more on the ball than that.
What do you think about Friedman’s comments? Let us know in the comments below!
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This week’s 31 Thoughts podcast was an Edmonton Oilers-Themed one and I’m going to try and transcribe the best parts of it for you here with my comments. This could be a long read, so you might want to grab a coffee, tea, beer, two-four of your favorite hard alcohol and buckle up!
EF=Elliotte Friedman JM=Jeff Marek
Part one is here. They talk about the timing and why Peter Chiarelli had to be fired. They also speak to analytics more so in that segment.
Here’s part two!
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Can One Happen Without the Other?
JM: Work with me on something. It seems like two different streams were running at the same time in that press conference. One, Bob Nicholson was clear that they’re not letting go of assets… But We’re going to get better. Can one happen without the other? Can they get better without moving some type of asset? You can always pick around the edges and the crust but if you’re going to do something, don’t you need to move one or two of those assets?
EF: They made it very clear they’re not interested in rebuilding and you’re not changing the coach. He’s for the rest of the year. Okay, so what are we talking about here?
JM: Is there a magic wand you can wave over everybody to make them play better?
EF: They said, “We’re not giving up any of our young assets unless we get something we can keep.” basically.
JM: Not for rentals but the goal is still to make the playoffs this year. So if someone comes to Keith Gretzky, “I’ve got a player that can help you get into the playoffs but he’s on an expiring contract, we would like your first round pick.”
EF: No. Unless… The only way I would say that that’s different is, if I was Keith Gretzky and I really wanted this guy, I would ask for 48 hours to talk about a contract extension.
My first kick at the can here is that the only way they can improve drastically is by dealing one of Leon Draisaitl or Ryan Nugent-Hopkins and we’ve mentioned Draisaitl recently.
But I don’t believe they’ll use their main assets to upgrade the roster. I think players like Tyler Benson, Dmitri Samorukov, Kirill Maksimov, Filip Berglund, and Ostap Safin might be used as trade fodder.
How Do They Get There (Playoffs)?
EF: I don’t have an answer for you on that. (Laughter ensues)
Look, who are you trading? Who are you going to trade that’s going to make a difference in terms of what you get? Who on that team has serious trade value?
JM: You have an interesting asset in Cam Talbot.
EF: Did you hear Burke? (Brian Burke: I don’t think you can move him at that salary, I just don’t think he’s movable.)
JM: Until someone gets a goalie injury.
I agree with Marek here. I think a team like Washington, who is on a mad losing streak right now, might be tempted into trading Andre Burakovsky for an upgrade for their backup position and possibly depth on defense.
EF: It’s a tough one for Talbot right now. So who else?
JM: Evan Bouchard.
EF: I can’t see it. Can I go the Doug MacLean route, I’ll tell you what I’ve heard, I won’t tell you if it’s true. I heard there was some team that had asked about Bouchard and they (Oilers) just said no.
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Who’s Got Value?
EF: Well let’s go through, who’s got value? That you can trade and get something for.
JM: Leon Draisaitl.
EF: Yes, you could do that. Would you do that?
JM: Depends on the return. I would trade anybody…
EF: There’s one person you’re not trading, Connor McDavid.
JM: Even with the Hall deal. I had no problem trading Taylor Hall, you just need to get more. I had no problem moving Taylor Hall or Jordan Eberle or whatever. So long as you get more in return. Justin Schultz, need to get more for that player. So I have no problem moving anyone outside of 97 on that roster. Do you?
EF: No. I mean I look at a guy like Nurse. He looks like he really wants to be part of the solution. So show me a trade that makes sense for a guy like that. A guy that clearly looks like he wants to be part of your team.
To me, the guys on that team that have value are, duh, McDavid but you’re not doing that. Draisaitl, Nurse, Klefbom, but I don’t think you can do that. Nugent-Hopkins, Puljujarvi, the 1st round pick, and I think Yamamoto would have value too.
Leon and Darnell will definitely come up in more trade rumors as time passes by and that’s just because they’re young, they’re very talented, and they’ll bring back what the Oilers could be looking for, right?
If you trade Leon, can you get a center back who is more defensively responsible like Sean Couturier and an upgrade on defense like Ivan Provorov or Shane Gostisbehere? Could Darnell Nurse net the team a desperately needed winger like Kasperi Kapanen or Jake DeBrusk?
JM: Although listening to the Bob Nicholson press Conference, do you not get the sense, because I do; that Puljujarvi is being pulled out of that discussion and they’re going to season him. Nicholson pulled out the old Ken Holland line and said “Over-ripen”.
EF: One of the guys I’ve kinda heard they’ve had some interest in but I’m not sure if he’s actually available is Athanasiou from Detroit.
JM: See that would indicate a significant philosophical shift away from “We’re a big, heavy, strong team. We’re a fast, speedy, quick puck moving team.”
When the shift from a fast and quick team to a big heavy team happened, I was 100% all-in. I was tired of watching the team get pushed around. Things have changed but growing up the Oilers M.O. was that they were one of the best skating teams in the entire league. I would be in favor of a return to that style.
EF: I’m not sure that, A) Detroit wants to do that. He’s still one of those guys that averages a lot of goals for the time he plays. You know the relationship between Athanasiou and the Red Wings has never been easy but Ken Holland strikes me looking at that situation and saying, “He’s still a very valuable young player and we’re not really looking to do anything if we don’t have to.”
But let’s just say this for argument’s sake, what’s it going to cost you to get him? It’s going to cost you a lot. So, in theory, since we’re playing GM here, if you’re Edmonton would you give up one of your young pieces for him?
JM: Yes, because he is a young piece himself and he can play with McDavid and that tempo that would be frightening to the rest of the NHL. You wanna talk about backing up defenseman on the blueline, that’s how you do it.
EF: Here’s my question to you, Bob Nicholson says, “We’re not giving up our young pieces for rentals.” but he’s not a rental. So does that change the equation? Possibly. If he’s available.
This will make my friend Joseph happy. He’s really on the Athanasiou train and I don’t blame him. But at what cost? Yamamoto? Benson? I wouldn’t support a Puljujarvi for Athanasiou trade but I could see a package that included one of the other two I just mentioned going to Detroit for him.
I mean, if we’re dealing with Detroit, why not see if faceoff specialist Luke Glendening and blooming defensive forward Tyler Bertuzzi are available as well?
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The New Direction of the Team?
JM: I come back to the philosophical shift perhaps that we’ll see in Edmonton. The “let’s build it heavy and not get pushed around” I’m assuming is done now. I’m assuming the new direction for this team is sympathetic to what the rest of the NHL has gone through and that’s foot speed, move the puck quick, quick, quick. Up-tempo.
EF: You need guys that can play with him. The feeling is that team didn’t play fast enough, so I’m sure they will put something on that.
Now, I don’t see anything wrong with having a tough team but to me, toughness is a lot of different things. It’s not just like, “We’re big and tough and we’re going to crush you.” Toughness is also playing through…
JM: Look, Darnell Nurse is fast and he’s tough.
EF: To me, McDavid is pretty tough. He takes a lot of abuse and he just plays but there is room for toughness.
Your best team has to be everything but there’s no question that they need to play at a faster pace than they have.
I have a theory that the league is going to over-compensate here on the small skilled guy and in a few years, there’s going to be a change of guard again but maybe not so extreme as this one has gone. A player like Quinton Byfield, who is a highly regarded prospect for the 2020 draft, is going to change the way teams look at power forwards. My thinking is, get on it now, find the good skating physical players and develop them and reap the benefits when the pivot happens. And it will happen at some point.
Who Do You Remove?
JM: Who do you remove from this lineup to make it better and how can you?
EF: I think those names are obvious but I think the biggest question is, how can you? So do you wanna just say, “Look, we’re buying out Lucic. We know we don’t get a ton of relief. We know it’s a big waste of money but we’re doing it to make a statement.” Do you wanna do that?
JM: If you’re the next GM it’s pretty tempting.
EF: That’s one the owner has to let you do.
I don’t know if I’d go the buyout route, it’s really expensive and this team needs all the cap room it can get. Might it make more sense to eat 50% and trade Lucic? There’d definitely be a market for him. Especially in the Metropolitan Division…
Darryl Katz
JM: Do you have any problem with Darryl Katz? The ultimate question is, do they have enough stability up top for this to be a successful franchise?
EF: We had a conversation a while ago about what you ask when you’re going in as a GM and my no.1 thing was the owner. I would look at Darryl Katz and I would say, he’s got a brand new building, he spends money on the team, he spent $100M on Connor McDavid, he spent a ton of money on Draisaitl.
I don’t look at anything he’s done from a financial POV and say, “This is a problem.”
This is a guy who is unafraid to spend money on his team and at the base, I like that.
Marek/Friedman go on to talk about the emotional investment Katz has in the team and I’m thinking that could be what’s in the water in Edmonton. Katz’s emotional investment. Maybe he needs to step away and just let his employees do their jobs without interference.
The No.1 Question for Contending GMs
EF: The no.1 question that contenders for this GM job going in will be, “How does it work in your organization? Who reports to who? Who talks to who? Who has the say?”
I don’t think that Wayne Gretzky would do anything to prevent a GM from doing what he/she wants to do. I don’t think he would. But I think people get intimidated by him and I think also Katz listens to him. He’s Wayne Gretzky, he’s smart. And I think you have to be very secure to go into that position and say, “Okay, I know this dynamic is here and I can handle it.” Even though I think it would be Gretzky’s goal to be helpful to anyone who went in there.
Bring a guy like Mark Hunter in, who played against Wayne during the 80s. I can guarantee that he’s not intimidated by the Great One.
There’s a bit of talk going on about how much collaboration there was with Chiarelli during his tenure and I can be sure he had full autonomy until the last few months here.
So it’s natural to suggest that the new guy should have full control but isn’t that what Chiarelli had? After all, he was the President of Hockey Operations AND the General Manager.
The Old Boys Club
EF: I have heard that. That he (Kevin Lowe) doesn’t get in the way. MacTavish does his job, offers his opinion, tries to stay out of the way. I’ve heard there were things this year that with Gretzky that he didn’t agree with but he’s like, “It’s not my call. I’ll offer my opinion but it’s not my call.”
However, there’s no question, they all get together. They all talk. They all have opinions.
I just think that if you’re going to go in there, you have to understand that that’s the way it is. But I don’t buy the idea that they’re interfering with these guys or preventing these guys from doing their jobs.
Tell me how Wayne Gretzky or Craig MacTavish or Kevin Lowe or any of those guys working there prevented Peter Chiarelli from doing what he wanted to do. Give me evidence.
JM: The only thing I’ve heard about that level of management is that they’ve talked Darryl Katz off the ledge sometimes. And Katz has wanted something to happen and Gretzky’s come in to say, “Hold on a second, pull back, big picture this one. Let’s not act emotionally.”
I can second this. From what I’ve been told, Katz has flown into Oilers games before, calling for heads only to be calmed down and convinced otherwise by either Bob Nicholson or Gretz.
EF: I’ve heard the same thing. Darryl Katz was the guy who said we’re taking Nail Yakupov. So, you can make all the excuses you want or you can come up with things you want and I have chased this story as much as anybody else has because we always here it, “The old Oilers are preventing the new guys from winning.” But I’ve had guys swear up and down to me that they really try their best now to stay out of the way because they know how the market feels about it.
I just think it’s a convenient excuse for fans to make up when everything else has dried up. It hasn’t helped that there’ve been more than a few reunions in recent years. So the OBC has been around a bit more often than previous to McDavid arriving.
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The Toxicity Around the Organization
JM: What does that mean to you?
EF: It’s what we talked about. It’s the crisis of consumer confidence. Your fans don’t believe in your vision, they don’t believe in you. They’re not showing up to games. They’re not buying their renewals. You’ve made the playoffs once since they went to the Stanley Cup Final in 2006 and they love their team.
Like I mentioned. I don’t see this consumer crisis as THAT bad. Have you seen how many people show up to Florida Panthers games? What about games in Anaheim, Carolina, or Arizona (When Edmonton isn’t playing there)? Those are clubs where half or more of their arenas are empty for a majority of their home games.
I don’t see this during Edmonton games at all. When’s the last time the Oilers tarped off portions of the upper deck during the regular season to try and make the arena appear more full than it actually is?
The Oilers are lucky that their fanbase has been this loyal to them. Very lucky and still very passionate.
How ridiculous was it two years ago when they went to the 2nd round of the playoffs and people were paying what, $80 to buy a ticket to stand in the concourse. They couldn’t even see the game.
That is definitely ridiculous. Might as well hit up a nearby pub or just hang out outside the arena with a phone or a tablet and watch the game there. Save the $80.
On the ex-Oiler thing, I have heard that they are well aware of how people feel about them and they do their jobs and they ask their opinions as they are told and they try to stay out of the way. Again, I heard that there were things that some of them didn’t like this year or last couple years and they just said, “Okay.”
The other thing that I think Wayne Gretzky has to offer is there’s only one guy that can talk to McDavid peer-to-peer and say, “I know how you’re feeling.” or “I can help you get through this feeling.” and that’s Wayne Gretzky. That, to me, is a very valuable service.
Right now, what’s Edmonton really sensitive about? Their fans when someone from Toronto steps up and says, “Well, Connor McDavid is going to be unhappy there.”
Now I don’t believe that. It’s going to take longer than this for McDavid to his patience, though I think the losing kills him. But that’s where Gretzky comes in. “I can manage you through it, I can help you with this.” and there’s probably only one guy in the world that can talk to McDavid at that level who’s an executive, and that’s the guy that is employed in the organization.
That’s it. 35 minutes of Edmonton Oilers talk. If you missed part one, it’s right here.
What do you think about what Jeff Marek and Elliotte Friedman said? Let us know in the comments below!
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This week’s 31 Thoughts podcast was an Edmonton Oilers-Themed one and I’m going to try and transcribe the best parts of it for you here with my comments. This could be a long read, so you might want to grab a coffee, tea, beer, two-four of your favorite hard alcohol and buckle up!
EF: Why did they do this (fire Chiarelli) now? Fans were voting with their wallets. There were empty seats. I’ve been somebody who studies the secondary ticket market, I’m very interested in this kind of thing. Value was way down. Your season ticket renewals are going out, your 3-year luxury suite rentals/leases are up. They were going to lose all that.
That’s why this decision was made now.
I have a hard time believing this one. As I’ve said many times before, every time I got home to watch a game, I always use the secondary ticket market and I never pay over $50 to watch the Oilers. Just because Friedman is noticing it now doesn’t mean it hasn’t been there the whole time.
I can’t speak to the luxury suites. As far as I understand a lot of those expensive seats, boxes, or what have you are owned by local corporations who use them as tax write-offs anyhow. So no skin off their backs.
JM: The Oilers have been on the wrong end of both the draft and trades over the past four years.
EF: No, no, no, no. I would hesitate to give up on Yamamoto and Puljujarvi. One of the things that’s being lost in sports, in general, is patience. I don’t want to say that both those guys are wastes or failures yet. I think that there is still time for both those players.
Don’t forget that Yamamoto was a later pick. Those guys generally take time.
Marek goes on to say that’s not what was intended by the question. I think he was pointing at the Reinhart deal and he’s not wrong but from a general drafting and development POV, the Oilers are MUCH better off now than they were before Chiarelli arrived.
JM: As much as Edmonton has re-stocked, whether it’s Jones, whether it’s Bouchard, Whether it’s Benson, Whether it’s Yamamoto, there is something there that you can see.
They do go into the Reinhart deal briefly and Marek wonders if that one is on Chiarelli whereas Friedman says, it doesn’t matter. I’m paraphrasing to save time here, Chiarelli was paid to be the boss, he wears the good with the bad.
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What Concerns Friedman About Nicholson’s Presser from an Oilers fan’s POV
EF: Nicholson said we can still make the playoffs, “we’re a playoff team” and while everybody always wants to be that team, I just wonder what it means because there’re certainly not trending that way.
I don’t think Nicholson could’ve gone another way here. Especially after what McDavid said about belief in the dressing room. I also don’t believe it’s the right message to convey to the team or the fanbase before seeing what can be done at the deadline.
How are they going to be able to change that? They said Ken Hitchcock is the coach for the rest of the season. What does that mean in terms of their decision making? That’s going to be a big question.
Friedman on the Oilers Wasting 97’s Prime Years
EF: I read a lot of stuff, “Oh, they’ve wasted his prime years.”
He’s got a long time. They have to fix it, he’s going to be a great player for a long time. And the thing I like most about McDavid is, that guy, he’s a professional. He hasn’t complained, he doesn’t complain on the ice to the referees, we talked last week that that now might be to his detriment. He goes out every day and he does his job and that quote he made the other day about how “If you don’t believe in this group and you’re in the locker room, then you need to leave.”
I heard he told the players the same thing before he told the public when they had their dressing room conversation.
It’s weird we never heard stuff like this about Hall or Yakupov or Eberle or Schultz, right?
Going Forward… The Return of an Ex-Employee?
EF: I think there’s going to be some major surgery that needs to be done but I always believe you have a chance (with McDavid on your team). I’m going to tell you something else, You know what I’m doing if I’m the Oilers? You know who I’m going to talk to? I’m going to talk to Tyler Dellow.
I’m bringing him back.
I think Tyler does really good work and I think an NHL team is going to hire him. And if I’m the Edmonton Oilers I want that to be me. They’re his team, they’re the team he’s most passionate about. You can always talk to somebody and say, “Tyler, there’s a way we’re going to conduct our business and you are going to fit in with the way I need you to be but to me, you can say whatever you want and I want all your information.” Because I think that guy is going to help a hockey team and if I’m the Edmonton Oilers, I want that to be me.
JM: Who makes that decision? Is that the GM or above the GM? I don’t disagree with you. I’ve known Tyler for a lot of years.
EF: Front offices are changing. This league is changing.
Woof! Good luck with this one. Dellow rubbed a lot of people wrong in Edmonton and burnt some serious bridges I believe but maybe now that Chiarelli is gone, there’s a minuscule possibility of a return. I mean if Dave Keon can return to the Maple Leafs, surely Dellow could go back to Edmonton.
I heard The Athletic is paying him a shit ton of money though. Reckon Edmonton could beat that and give him parameters to work within?
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Are the Oilers One of them?
EF: These teams are growing. When I was in Vegas, it was obvious to me that some of these clubs have quietly hired more people than they let on.
JM: Is Edmonton one of them?
EF: No. Edmonton I think is behind.
JM: Which is interesting because a lot of this “analytics movement” started with people like Vic Ferrari around the Edmonton Oilers.
EF: Yes. The Oilers have always had an interesting, for lack of a better term, cult of analytics fans (laughter ensues). Sorry guys. It’s just a word I use.
But you have to have that now. You have to have people who think differently and again, you could have a conversation with someone and say, “This is how I need you to be around the players. This is how I need you to be around certain people in the organization but at the end of the day, you can say to me whatever you want and I may listen, I may not, but I want to hear what you have to say.”
Like, what was the no.1 thing Bob Nicholson talked about in his press conference, “We need to do a better job of evaluating players.”
JM: And let them season in the AHL. Which is pretty much him saying Yamamoto get used to Bakersfield and you too Puljujarvi.
EF: I wonder about that and I think that’s the right message but they said they’ve got to do a better job of evaluating.
JM: Is that a thinly veiled way of saying, “We can’t just rely on, Hey we’re good hockey men, we rely on these eyeballs.”
EF: I don’t think anybody can do that anymore.
I’ve got ZERO problems with the Oilers bringing in more personnel to increase the quality of decisions being made.
But if I were the Oilers, I’d just take a look at some of the Twitter timelines of the analytics influencers who cover the Oilers or the Maple Leafs, for example, and ask myself, “Is that the kind of person I want representing my club? Do I want that kind of immaturity penetrating my hockey team?”
While the work being done by those people could have value, does the character of those individuals coincide with our how an NHL team wants to be represented?
Analytics vs. the Eye Test
EF: To me, the fight’s over. I hate it when I see on Twitter, I hate hearing it anywhere. To me, it’s all about building the best organization and if they don’t want to bring Tyler back, I might call Sunny Mehta.
I think the fight could be over if folks could just drop the egos (or leave social media). There’s a pretty good reason why there’s bitterness between the two tribes and if I recall correctly, the aforementioned Tyler Dellow has been at the center of it.
We’re only 15 minutes into the podcast now. Coming up you’ll hear what Marek and Friedman think the Oilers should do going forward.
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Late last night Sportsnet released the latest 31 Thoughts pod and they had quite a bit of Oilers talk. More than normal and so in the next two posts I will be transcribing some of that material for you.
Jeff Marek and Elliotte Friedman on Milan Lucic
To preface this transcription, the hosts of the 31 Thoughts podcast were talking about players who “chase the hit” like Tom Wilson and Nikita Zadorov and how Friedman thought that there might be a return to this kind of player in the future (something I agree with). Marek thought no because nobody is building that kind of player right now. They’re all in Connor McDavid mode and concentrating on skill and skating at the moment but Friedman’s reply to that was that there’ll be a parent that looks at Tom Wilson or a coach that looks at him and says, “I can build that. I can do that.”
My feeling is that yes, there’ll be a return to the power forward because there’s this hard on for the skilled little guy right now but the new power forwards will be more Tom Wilson (sans the questionable hits and suspensions) and less Milan Lucic. Meaning he’ll have the skating and the skills to go along with his physicality. Think Quinton Byfield, a 2020 eligible player who is 6’4″ 214lbs (at 16 years old!) and is getting comparisons to one of the greatest skilled power forwards in the history of the NHL, Eric Lindros.
On to the transcription!
Marek: For every Tom Wilson where you say, “Hey, we need to go find a guy like this!”, the other side of the coin there is Milan Lucic, who Oilers fans are pulling their hair out over with that contract and that lack of production.
Friedman: Lucic is older than both those guys (Wilson/Zadorov).
Marek: Is the Lesson there that when you play that style of game your career is limited and when it ends it ends quickly, abruptly, and you better not get caught~ When the music stops on these guys there’d better be a chair for you to sit in?
Friedman: I think that’s fair that maybe this is one of those things where you gotta get that guy when he’s younger as opposed to when he’s older. And don’t forget what a force he was when they won the Cup.
Marek: Absolutely. No one’s denying that. The way he played with the Boston Bruins, he was a tornado in a trailer park.
Friedman: Maybe that’s the secret Jeff. If you’re going to get a guy like that you gotta get him before he’s 27.
Marek: Sure. Makes sense to me if you’re going to have that style of player. I’ve always felt this way about the previous generation about fighters that change teams. It’s really tough when you leave a market where your calling card is physicality because if you stay in that market, in a lot of ways, you can surf on the reputation. You can do that for a while but when someone who plays a physical type of game, specifically someone who’s known for fighting goes to a different market, it’s a different market and they want to see you do it all over again. You haven’t established that reputation in that market for that team yet. That’s why it’s tough when older tougher players move teams.
Like, Milan Lucic could’ve stayed in Boston if they would’ve let him and just surfed on the rep and here’s the big tough guy and skate around the ice and everyone goes home happy. You’re not going to do that in Los Angeles, they wanna see it. You’re not gonna do that in Edmonton, they wanna see it. And when you get older I can only imagine how tough it is to rev that engine up again every single night. Like you’re 22 again.
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Now, I’m a glass half full kinda guy and I’m not sold on the idea that Milan Lucic is done. Yeah, he’s having a tough go at the moment but really, how bad is it when he’s been on the 3rd line for a solid portion of the season to date and removed from the 1st unit PP (both moves I support by the way) yet he still has more points than James Neal, Max Pacioretty. He’s also only a point away from Anze Kopitar, two points away from Jaden Schwartz, three points away from Nik Ehlers, and a mere four points away from Brayden Schenn.
I don’t subscribe to the idea of combining seasons to make your point either. This season is brand new, no sense in using last year’s stats to pad your argument for this season. If you watch him, there’s no doubt that he’s got the fire back in his belly. He’s skating well, he’s hitting often and hard. He’s winning battles in the corners and along the boards. He’s completing more passes more often.
He’s really back to playing like the Lucic we all know and love but the puck isn’t going in for him. It happens. Let’s see what the result is when he plays some significant time with a skilled top-2 center and see if his game drops off or if he causes his linemates a drop off in production.
What do you think? Let us know in the comments below!
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Jeff Marek and Elliotte Friedman spoke about the Edmonton Oilers in their latest podcast (check it out here) from March 8th and it’s a nice 9-minute segment dedicated to the Oilers and their woes.
I want to transcribe some of it here for you today and comment on some of the things they say but if you’re the impatient type and simply want to hear the segment first, scroll down to the bottom and you can listen to it.
JM= Jeff Marek
EF= Elliotte Friedman
OSCAR KLEFBOM
JM: Elliotte, Oscar Klefbom and the idea that they may be playing him simply to showcase him despite him being a little bit banged up.
EF: I think a lot banged up. I’ve wrote a couple of times this year that Kesler is being held up by duct tape and a couple of guys reached out to me and said Klefbom is too.
I’ve written a couple of times here too and I don’t understand why he’s playing. Like, I get guys want to play and you want to wait until someone is officially eliminated but he’s clearly hurting and there’s no logical reason for it. And finally someone said to me, you know what could be going on here?
They’re going to make a move here.
JM: How can it be a showcase if he’s injured? He’s not going to show well.
EF: Well I think people understand what he was
JM: So do you need to see him now? That’s the point I don’t get. If you’re running him out there hurt, what’s the value there for anybody? Certainly not for Klefbom, not for the Oilers.
EF: You know what? Honestly Jeff, there’s so many questions about this thing that I have. I can’t answer this question. But the fact is that I think that teams are scouting him, I think people were looking at him and I think they got to sign Darnell Nurse, who’s had a really good year and I think Klefbom has value. He had a great year last year, he scored 12 goals, he’s got a good contract. I do think people are looking at him.
Oh, Oscar is definitely on the block and I do expect him to be dealt this summer because Chiarelli likes Ryan Nugent-Hopkins more and sees more value there. Also, the depth on the left side defense is a helluva lot deeper than down the middle.
My theory on why other teams don’t care if he plays is that his shoulder injury has been disclosed and it can’t get any worse by playing with it. As Friedman said above, they know what they could be getting in Klefbom and are willing to roll the dice.
I think another thing that is starting to get out is there might be a disagreement between player and team as to whether or not to get the procedure done now.
Players want to play (Pat Maroon, Cam Talbot, and Adam Larsson all come to mind this season for playing hurt), they don’t want to abandon their teammates, and it’s my belief that Klefbom is probably feeling a tad guilty and playing through his injury because back in 2015 he was in and out of the lineup, unsure when he was going to be able to come back. He might’ve got some flack from teammates or other staff for not getting back into the lineup.
I just reckon he’d prefer to play the year out and get that respect from his teammates. Of course, they’d understand if he chose to go under the knife but it’s his call, right?
WHAT HAPPENS TO EDMONTON IN THE OFF-SEASON?
JM: What happens to Edmonton in the off-season?
EF: You know, that’s a great question. I watched, I didn’t see Saturday night because I was in Maryland, but I watched the interview (Bob Nicholson one) with David (Ambder) and Cassie (Campbell-Pascal)…
*cuts to interview*
EF: You know I thought Nicholson was dropping a lot of hints there and you got the sense he wanted to say a bit more but he was holding himself back.
He (Nicholson) has a long history with Cassie and I think he wanted to say some more stuff but the thing that struck me was that they’re going to make changes but they’re not going to make changes for the sake of doing it.
He said ‘we fire a lot of people here’ and I think he would prefer to keep Peter and Todd. That’s the sense I got but I think that may be decided by who else is available.
Like what if Barry Trotz (WAS) is available? What if Joel Quenneville (CHI) is available?
And the other thing too is, I don’t know who really is making the final call here?
JM: By way of title it should be Peter Chiarelli.
EF: Or Bob (Nicholson) or the owner (Daryl Katz).
JM: Didn’t the owner want a coaching move during the season? Wasn’t it after that Dallas game?
EF: There’s been some rumbling about that. This year you’re talking about?
JM: This year. Yeah. And Wayne Gretzky was on the road trip.
EF: There’s been a rumor about that. I don’t know if it’s true though. Daryl Katz doesn’t come out that much. It’s hard to check that kind of thing.
JM: Any time I talk to anyone there it’s ‘Katz is fuming. Katz is fuming about this season.’
EF: I agree with that. Someone told me last year they were the highest revenue team in the NHL and they’re not going to be that way this year. Because that arena is such a cash cow.
They’re not going to be there this year (no.1 in revenue) and I do believe that Daryl is upset but who’s making the call? Is it Katz? Is it Nicholson? Is it Chiarelli? Is it Wayne Gretzky? Is it somebody else? Like, nobody seems to have the answer to that.
Now, I’m not exactly sure which Dallas game that is but I’m going to go ahead and assume it was the one they lost 5-1. A matinee game back at the beginning of January.
Don’t you remember? That was the game where Stauffer didn’t do his customary post-game tweet and things got VERY quiet. I wrote herethat there was a meeting to discuss the futures of McLellan and Chiarelli and it wasn’t too long after that Chiarelli did a couple of media interviews to discuss the state of the franchise and that’s when Todd McLellan got his dreaded vote of confidence.
If the Capitals get booted in the first round this year, Trotz is out. If I’m not mistaken, he was on Oilers Now last week and he was saying there’s something off about that team and Trotz… So take that for what it is.
Is there a better coach than Joel Quenneville to take over the Oilers? He knows exactly how it is coaching a team with two teenage superstars and building a winning team around those players.
But I do get where Friedman is coming from. Nobody is really sure who’s at the wheel of this cheese wagon. I mean Coffey was brought in by Gretzky, right?
SPEAKING OF COFFEY
JM: And what’s Paul Coffey’s role here?
EF: My guess is that he ends up coaching but I don’t know if that’s head coach or assistant coach.
JM: He’s scouting in Ontario.
EF: I heard that, could he be a GM? I’ve been told he’s got no desire to be GM. I think he wants to coach.
GM! HA!
If Coffey wants to be a head coach, he’s got all the right people in place to make that happen in Edmonton but that idea, at best, is a terrible one. That said, IF he puts in the reps as an assistant coach and is promoted from there, I think most could get on board with that because he’s earned it.
Who is he scouting in Ontario? Ryan Merkley? They share some playing attributes.
I mean if he’s scouting kids for the upcoming draft, then there’s a good chance he’ll have an official title by the start of next season and watch where he’s sitting at the draft or possibly the draft lottery.
THE TURN AROUND
JM: How close do you think they are to turning it around? Knowing the composition of this team.
EF: They’re not as bad as they’re playing this year. I refuse to believe that.
JM: They need wingers.
EF: They need wingers but that should be, in theory, the easiest thing to find. Now, I will say this, I think one of the things they’re going to have to figure out is how to convince Connor McDavid and Leon Draisaitl that they shouldn’t play together.
JM: They want to play together. They want to be on the same line.
EF: Ya but I think that’s gotta change. You’ve got to show them Pittsburgh and say ‘Guys, why did they win two Stanley Cups back-to-back? Because they got Crosby on one and Malkin on another and you get someone like Kessel and he plays on a 3rd’.
JM: Yzerman, Federov. Keep going.
EF: You gotta. Those guys have to learn that they can’t play together. Maybe in certain situations. Crosby and Malkin play together on the PP. Maybe you put them together on a line here and there but generally, they got to play apart.
I 100% agree here. The Oilers are by no means this bad. Their 5×5 scoring tells us all we need to know not to mention IF they had some goaltending and special teams, they’d be a 100pt team again and that’s without Eberle or Hall or Pouliot or Mark Fayne.
I grew up being spoiled with the Jagr, Lemieux, Francis line in Pittsburgh but they didn’t always play together either but when they did, the Pens were almost guaranteed to score. A line like that today would be like having McDavid with Laine and Bergeron… Ridiculous, right?
WHAT ELSE?
JM: They need a save and you’re hoping this is just the outlier year for the netminder and he comes back like he did last season.
EF: Yeah but look, I agree with you. Talbot had a rough year but if you look at their team this year, you know, Larsson was worse than last year, Klefbom, because of the injury, was worse than last year, Sekera, who was a pretty big player for them was out for half of the year.
Sometimes you have to bet on our guys aren’t going to be that bad again. Things are going to be better next year.
JM: But you’re not going to go into next season with the same lineup.
EF: No no. That’s why I wonder about the Klefbom thing.
JM: Then again, the idea of we’re not going to make changes for the sake of making changes is- You’ve got a fanbase that’s torches at the castle gate right now. That volcano needs a virgin.
Two things here,
There will be sacrifice but how many, we don’t know.
How could you NOT call this year an outlier will all the f*cked up stats and EVERYBODY but 4 players regressing this year?
Is it possible to have two outlier seasons in a row? Obviously, last year was one and this year is another.
Since the Oilers went away from hiring within the OBC it’s been some sort of episode from Black Mirror or something.
yr 1 – everyone is hurt
yr 2 – nobody is hurt, 100+ pt season but season ended on a bad call
yr 3 – 75% of roster regresses plus injuries, plus players’ dads dying, plus worst home PK in NHL history, plus PP eating sh*t
I’m really on the fence with firing the main men and making a huge trade. Terry Jones said it before me, if you fire those men you take the onus off of the players and they need to be held responsible as well, no matter how noble their actions may be.
Book this though, Talbot, Montoya (IF he’s with the Oilers parent club and not in the minors), and Puljujarvi will have great years as they’ll be going into their contract years. I think it was Lowetide who said to keep Pulju away from McDavid so that the Oilers don’t run into another Leon Draisaitl situation and I’m not sure I agree with that. Good players are good players and should be paid as such.
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