Tag Archives: Jason Spezza

What’s a Top-5 Pick Worth?

kessel-face

So, as a follow-up article to my precious article’s attempt to place a value on a top-pairing right-side defensemen, I was asked “What’s the value of a Top-5 pick”.  Now, if you believe Auston Matthews is a generational player, I previously wrote an article trying to come up with a modern version of the Lindros trade, which was the last time a “generational” forward was dealt.  However, if you don’t think Matthews fits into that mold, this will cover a more traditional view of what a Top-5 pick is worth.

For an idea on the value of a draft pick, I used the information from http://www.tsn.ca/statistically-speaking-expected-value-of-nhl-draft-picks-1.317819, an excellent article by Scott Cullen.

Since the 2000 season, the following trades for Top-5 picks have occurred.  Notice from 2000-2004 it was extremely common to see movement in the draft, but since then it has been less likely to occur.  We have:

  • 2000:
    • #5 Raffi Torres, NYI from Tampa
      • Kevin Weekes, Kristian Kudroc and a 2001 2nd round pick for the #5 pick, 2000 4th round pick and a 2000 7th round pick;
      • What did they get:
        • Kevin Weekes had a few seasons under his belt by that point, but had never played more than 36 games in a season until this trade. He had ok numbers going forward, so we can classify him as an average NHL starter.
        • Kristian Kudroc was a 6’7, 225lb right-shot defenseman, who was a very physical player, but he never panned out at the NHL level with only 26 total NHL games in his career, but teams have always been willing to place a premium on giants like this;
        • A 2nd round pick, giving you a 33.8% chance of landing an NHL player;
      • What did they give up:
        • The #5 pick, which has a chance of being 73.8% chance of being a Top-6 caliber or better player.
        • A 4th round pick, which is an 18.9% chance of giving you an NHL player;
        • A 7th round pick, which is a 9.3% chance of giving you an NHL player;
  • 2001:
    • #2 Jason Spezza, Ottawa from NYI
      • Alexei Yashin for Bill Muckalt, Zdeno Chara and the #2 pick;
      • What did they get:
        • Oh, the trades you wish you could take back if you were the Islanders.. Having said that, at the time of the deal, Yashin had put up 88 points in 82 NHL games the previous season, and his time with the Islanders wasn’t that bad, putting up 75 in 78 the next season. As well, he was a legitimate top-line NHL center at the time. If it wasn’t for his absurd deal, he likely would have had a much longer career with the Islanders, as he had 50 points in 58 games the season he was bought out. He played 5 seasons with the Islanders, scoring 290 points in 346 games.
      • What did they give up:
        • Bill Muckalt was your average NHL depth winger, not much to consider there.
        • The #2 pick, which is that 73.8% chance of getting a top-6 player or better;
        • Zdeno Chara, the 6’9 250lb giant, who was in his 4th season with the Islanders when this trade went down. Now, it should be noted that with the Islanders, he didn’t seem nearly as skilled as he turned out to be, putting up 29 points in 231 games. It was pretty clear he had a mean streak. However, his first season with the Senators he put up 23 points in 75 games, and never looked back. Call this a quality prospect defenseman deal.
  • 2002:
    • #1 Rick Nash, Columbus from Florida
      • #3, some draft swap options that were not exercised for next year (ability to swap first round picks) #3 Jay Bouwmeester, Florida from Columbus
      • What did they get: This was a classic example of two teams preferring different players (forwards or defensemen), and swapping their picks that year with the option for the other team to swap them next season… Essentially, this was just an attempt to pick up a better draft spot next year when an organization clearly preferred a player.
    • #4 Joni Pitkanen, Philly from Tampa
      • Ruslan Fedotenko, 2 2002 2nd round picks for the #4
      • What did they give up:
        • At the time, Ruslan Fedotenko had seasons of 36 points in 74 games and 26 points in 78 games. During his time with the Lightning, he was around a 45-point winger, so a solid second-line player.
        • The pair of 2nd round picks gives the team 33.8% chance for each pick of landing an NHL player
      • What did they get:
        • A defenseman in the first 5 picks has a 64.7% chance of being a Top-4 defenseman;
  • 2003:
    • #1 Marc-Andre Fleury, Pittsburgh from Florida
      • The #3 pick, 2003 2nd round pick for the #1 and a 2003 3rd round pick;
      • Once again, this was a case of organizations preferring a given player in the Top-5, where the team trading down to pick their player gained a 2nd round pick for a 3rd round pick for doing it.
  • 2004:
    • #4 Andrew Ladd, Carolina from Columbus
      • A 2004 1st round pick and a 2004 2nd round pick for the #4 pick.
      • And the same idea here, where a team picked up an additional 2nd round pick for moving down a few spots.
  • 2008:
    • #3 Zach Bogosian
      • Rights to Keith Tkachuk, conditional 4th round pick;
      • This was a deal sweetener trade for Keith Tkachuk if they were able to resign him, so essentially a #3 pick was used to balance a trade for a Top-3 power forward. A parallel could be used here if the Oilers were to make a trade for Kevin Shattenkirk and part of the deal was a 1st round pick going to the Blues if they were able to re-sign him.
    • #5 Luke Schenn, Toronto from NYI
      • The #5 pick for the #7 pick, 2008 3rd round pick and a 2009 2nd round pick
      • Once again, we have a trading down deal, where an organization dropped down 2 spots in the draft to pick up some extra 2nd and 3rd round picks.
  • 2010:
    • #2 Tyler Seguin, Boston from Toronto
      • Phil Kessel for #2, 2010 2nd round, 2011 1st round #9
      • Now this is one of the rare deals, where an elite NHL winger was dealt;
      • What did they get:
        • Phil Kessel was just coming into his own then, and he went on to put up some very high numbers with a very bad Toronto organization. He would be considered an elite Top-3 winger;
      • What did they give up:
        • The #2 pick would be a 73.8% chance of a Top-6 or better forward;
        • The #9 in 2011 was a 64.7% chance of getting a Top-4 defenseman;
        • And the 2nd round pick was a 33.8% chance of getting an NHL player;

So, if we remove all the trades that would just be the Oilers trading down slightly to get a couple more 2nd or 3rd round picks, we have these left:

  • A #5 pick (as well as a 4th round pick and a 7th round pick) went for an average starting goaltender, a quality prospect defenseman, and a 2nd round pick;
  • A #2 pick as well as a depth forward and a quality prospect defenseman for a Top-3 NHL center;
  • A #4 pick for a 2nd line Winger and a pair of 2nd round picks;
  • A #3 pick as a deal sweetener if a team re-signs an elite forward (or player) they get in a deal;
  • A #2 pick, a #9 pick and a 2nd round pick for an Elite Top-3 scoring winger;
        • The #9 in 2011 was a 64.7% chance of getting a Top-4 defenseman;
        • And the 2nd round pick was a 33.8% chance of getting an NHL player;

So, what can we conclude from this?  Depending on where the Oilers pick, we can see that you can get an elite NHL forward for a #2 pick if you include either another pick or a quality prospect defenseman.  If you go down to #3, you can use this to seal the deal on a soon-to-be UFA elite player in a deal.  At #4, you can get yourself a Top-6 forward and a few extra picks, and at #5 you can get a quality prospect, a starting goaltender and an extra depth pick.

I would say there’s little point in trading the #4 or #5 here, as teams rarely got anything worth the effort.  For the #3, this would be an example, as mentioned, of how the Oilers may do a deal for Brent Burns or Kevin Shattenkirk, who both have one year until free agency, however that wouldn’t work for this year’s draft anyhow, it would be more likely to involve their pick next year.  And lastly, we can see that you can land an elite NHL forward in a deal for that #2 pick.  Having said that, if you look at the Yashin deal and the Seguin deal, both teams trading for that elite player and giving up the draft pick did not fare well.  Essentially, teams dealing their Top-5 picks don’t tend to come out of it all that well unless they’re doing a swap with another team for a high first round pick to get the player they prefer.


 

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BLH Post Gamer:G3-Edmonton Oilers Vs Dallas Stars

 

Well tonight was interesting. I was definitely in a glass case of emotion as a fan and I can only imagine how everyone else felt. The Oilers didn’t come out too strong in the first, the shot count can be misconstrued as it was pointed out a lot how much the Dallas Stars just put the puck on net from anywhere; with the naked eye you could see a good high percentage of the shots weren’t high quality.

The defence was keeping a lot of shots to the outside and blocked 25 shots tonight. The boys on the back end were actually doing an average job of blocking off the shooting lanes but the Stars were just throwing everything and the kitchen sink at Nilsson tonight; who let in 2 softies, but absolutely stood on his head making 48 saves on 51 shots. It’s nice to see the Oilers get solid goaltending in net for once.

The boys in white came out rocking in the second though with much more energy, keeping pace in the period with the Stars in shots only being outshot 14-13. They got a much needed boost with two quick goals from Oscar Klefbom and Connor McDavid, who finally broke the goose egg with his first career NHL goal. They didn’t look back from that point, sustaining pressure, winning puck battles, making the smart and simple plays first, and sticking to the game plan.

Everyone seemed to have a nice kick of energy and we had hope could pull off a win. Then the third period started and my emotions were going all over the place, a lot of screaming and yelling at the TV. The Oil just didn’t appear to have the fire they came out with in the second and then they took a bad penalty and that deflated any sort of momentum they had built to that point.

I knew once Yakupov missed on that breakaway something bad was going to happen, I just didn’t expect it to happen so quickly.

You can only be outplayed and out shot for so long till another one goes in, killing all momentum and crushing my hopes and dreams for a win. I was on an emotional roller coaster tonight, but I was again pleased that this team efforts level is much better then its ever been the last 3 years, so there’s a positive right?

 

The Three Beer League Heroes tonight are:

1.Jason Spezza- He played a fantastic game tonight, he was all over the offensive zone, played great defensively and had a hat-trick for his first 3 goals of the season, he was by the far best player on the ice and well deserving of the first Hero.

2. Anders Nilsson– What can you say about a performance like that, he let in 2 softies in my opinion, but he battled hard for the full 60 minutes, made 48 saves tonight and stood on his head giving Edmonton a chance to stay in this game and he did just that. Thoroughly impressed with his compete level, something I don’t remember seeing with the Islanders.

3.Connor Mcdavid- Who else deserves this, after two LONG grueling games scores his first NHL goal, like 2 other phenom’s in Sidney Crosby and Wayne Gretzky. He still played a solid game and looks mature beyond his years, he’s only getting better as each game passes and more comfortable, tonight was the first night of him picking up some steam.

Tonight’s Golden Plunger Award goes to…..

Anton Lander. It never pleases me to give this award out especially to a guy who’s been working his tail off and earning his job every night. It’s not that he played horrible, it’s that he just didn’t make use out of any of his minutes he had out there, almost a third of them were shorthanded and he appeared to be benched in the third period. So the coaching staff saw something they didn’t like out of him tonight. He just didn’t have that pep, that puck prowess he usually has when he’s out there, winning puck battles and just being strong on the puck like he normally is.

Side note: Anton Slepyshev only played 5:27 tonight.

Overall with tonight’s loss, I was happy to see that we could battle back and square the game up and get some momentum from two of the players we need to step up in times of need. Still frustrated after the fact that they just didn’t have their legs tonight, and couldn’t keep a consistent flow of momentum going. Taylor hall wasn’t himself and you could see was not 100%.

The only positive out of the offence tonight was the Pouliot-McDavid-Yakupov line, who have some found good chemistry and I’m hoping they’re kept together to capitalize on this blossoming chemistry. No moral victories tonight, this was a loser’s loss because the Oilers simply weren’t the better team out there tonight.

I’ll say it again, the effort out of this team is still far more improved then what we are accustomed to and much better body language on the bench, especially from the Oilers emotional leader in Hall.

Next game is against the St. Louis Blues at the home opener on Thursday night. The Oilers have to come out crashing and full of life in this game if they want to stand a chance, they can’t surrender the same amount of shots as they did tonight and get away with it again. They have to tighten up defensively and start throwing more pucks on net, start shooting and start the crashing, its going to be the only way they can penetrate the Blues defensive system. Shots and speed, utilize the fact that they’re the quicker team and start creating breakdowns in their zone.

Thanks for reading feel free to let me know what you think @madi39 or in the comment section below!