Had This Deal Gone Down, Could the Oilers Have Kept Hall?

When's the last time the Flames and Oilers hooked up for a trade? Staios? Smid?
When’s the last time the Flames and Oilers hooked up for a trade? Staios? Smid?

I came across a guest post on another website the other day and there was a gentlemen out of Toronto who wrote something very interesting…

So i was talking to someone with direct knowledge of the situation that there was almost a 3 way trade done on day 1 of the draft just before it began.

They had mentioned that there was a trade in the works that would have sent the 3rd overall pick (clb) to calgary for the 6th overall pick + but that the blue jackets did not want to move to the 6th spot.

Enter the oilers 4th overall pick peter chiarelli was in and almost made this trade

blue jackets
ryan nugent-hopkins
4th overall pick (edm)

flames
3rd overall pick (clb)
sonny milano

oilers
6th overall pick (cgy)
dougie hamilton

this was the entire proposed trade i asked him twice to make sure but he said these were all the parts no additions anywhere , he also said this trade was essentially done until the last second when the blue jackets gm jarmo Kekäläinen played his hand a little quick , mentioned he had dubios above puljujarvi and that was the comment that killed the trade. chiarelli pulled out once he realized that he could get puljujarvi with the 4th overall and that stopped all wheels in motion.

That would’ve been a killer I say. Now it’s all hearsay and rumour at this point of course. We’ll never know if this is actually true or not but how would’ve this deal changed the landscape of the Oilers as we know them today?

  • Is it safe to assume that the team would’ve still gone and signed Lucic? I say yes.
  • Bob Stauffer has intimated that the Oilers had Mikhail Sergachev at the no.4 spot behind Puljujarvi. I’ll say they would’ve taken him at no.6 but they would’ve had their choice or Juolevi or Tkachuk as well.
  • Who would slot in at 3C? Caggiula? A free agent? Not sure they’d have had the cash to bring in anybody significant.

Here’s how the roster might’ve looked had the deal gone down.

Lucic-McDavid-Yakupov
Hall-Draisaitl-Eberle
Pouliot-XXX-Kassian
Maroon-Letestu-Pakarinen
Hendricks, Lander

Klefbom-Hamilton
Sekera-Fayne
Nurse-Davidson
Reinhart

Talbot
Gustavsson

Down Nugent-Hopkins but up on defence with Dougie Hamilton. We know that the Oilers did in fact talk to the Blue Jackets GM and the Flames GM at the draft (Stauffer has mentioned this on his show as well) and we also know that Chiarelli was trying to get Hamilton out of Boston at last year’s draft.

Walter Foddis had this to say when comparing Larsson to Hamilton:

That’s a tough one. Hamilton is better offensively, whereas Larsson is better defensively. Looking  at some metrics, Hamilton’s eGF% vs top-end competition is better than Larsson’s, especially against top-pairing D-men. Hamilton’s eGF% vs top-pairing Dmen was 47.3% & Larsson’s was 39.5%.

Overall, Larsson’s CA RelTM is -4 and Hamilton’s +2, which suggest Larsson is stronger defensivelly. That is, Larsson’s NJD allowed 6 fewer shot attempts/60 minutes than Hamilton’s Flames.

The opposite is true for offense, though. Hamilton’s Flames generated 11 more shot attempts per 60 minutes than Larsson’s NJD.

So although Larsson appears be stronger defensively, Hamilton’s offensive game more than compensates for this deficiency.

Comparing them on the WoodMoney metric would be interesting.

Would the Oilers still be looking for that PP QB? Chiarelli did say that the Hall deal was going down regardless but I have to call bullsh*t on that if Hamilton could’ve been acquired…

I don’t like the idea of the Oilers having poor depth at centre but one would have to think that had this scenario gone down as such that the Oilers would’ve traded one of the left-wings (Pouliot most likely) for a serviceable third line center.

What are your thoughts on this rumor? Would you have rather had Hall, Lucic, Hamilton and Sergachev, or Nugent-Hopkins, Lucic, Larsson, and Puljujarvi? Which grouping would’ve made the Oilers a better team?

Let me know in the comments below!


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Rightie Tightie Leftie Loosie

The Oilers added Adam Larsson a few weeks ago, could they add another RHD next summer?

Friend of the blog and former BLH writer Micah Kowalchuk sent me an interesting message the other day talking about how the Oilers could very well find themselves a good young dman closer to the expansion draft next summer rather than digging around and overpaying for one this summer. Here’s the message I got from him:

“If you play around with General Fanager’s expansion draft calculator, these are the teams that, between the defense they have on the roster and their forwards, likely have to expose a good RHD:

Columbus, Colorado, Florida, Minnesota, Winnipeg

Columbus has a ton of NMCs, and likely have to expose one of Johnson, Murray or Savard

Florida has a ton of high end young talent that has to be protected at forward and just signed some high value defenders or traded for some, and may have to make Pysyk or Demers available (odd as that is).

Minnesota has a ton of young players on the roster as well, and unless they want to exposure Suter or Spurgeon (which is unlikely), they probably have to put Brodin or Dumba up on the market.

Winnipeg also has the “plenty of young talent” problem, and burning all their protection slots on right side defenders seems unlikely, so Trouba or even Myers may be on market

Colorado has the young talent issue as well, with the likelihood of having to exposure Barrie or Zadorov as a concern”

Let’s take a gander at the teams’ defensive depth charts from www.rosterresource.comI sorted them leftie/rightie and highlighted the ones I think the teams would choose to keep if they had the choice. Players with movement clauses were also highlighted.

COLUMBUS (link)

Ryan MurraySeth Jones
Jack Johnson – David Savard
Dean Kukan – Dalton Prout

Zach Werenski – John Ramage
Dillon Heatherington – Blake Siebenaler
Oleg Yevenko – Jaime Sefers
Jacob Graves
Markus Nutivaara

The Blue Jackets are a little bit blessed in that they don’t have any movement clauses on the back-end. I reckon they’d be happy to move on from Jack Johnson in order to fit Zach Werenski into the lineup.

COLORADO (link)

Francois BeaucheminErik Johnson
Fedor Tyutin – Tyson Barrie
Chris Bigras – Eric Gelinas
– Patrick Wiercioch
– Nikita Zadorov

Ryan Stanton – Mat Clark
Duncan Siemens
Mason Geertsen
Cody Corbett
Anton Lindholm
Sergei Boigov

Colorado is in a bit of a pickle here. Did they sign Wiercioch with the intention to trade Barrie? What will come of Zadorov? Interesting team to pick at for the Oilers if the opportunity arises.

FLORIDA (link)

Keith YandleAaron Ekblad
Jakub Kindl – Jason Demers
Michael Matheson – Mark Pysyk
– Alex Petrovic
– Linus Holtstrom

Michael Downing – Steve Kampfer
Jonathan Racine – Jayce Hawryluk
Ian McCoshen – Mackenzie Weegar
– Josh Brown
– Brent Regner

Now this is a team with some depth! Wow! I know they are high on Matheson, so I have to wonder if he plays enough games whether he’ll need to be protected or not. Pysyk, Kindl, Petrovic, and Hultstrom look to be cannon fodder for the expansion draft if they are kept all year. Although, that being said, they’re all on one year deals apart from the Swede. So they’d be free agents…

MINNESOTA (link)

Ryan SuterJared Spurgeon
Marco Scandella – Matt Dumba
Jonas Brodin – Christian Folin
Mike Reilly
Nate Prosser

Victor Bartley – Hunter Warner
Gustav Olofsson – Alex Gudbranson
Dylan Labbe
Nick Seeler
Guillaume Gelinas
Zach Palmquist

Now here’s a team in trouble for the expansion draft. They’ve got Parise, Koivu, and Pominville with movement/trade clauses along with young players like Charlie Coyle, Mikael Granlund, and Nino Niederreiter needing to be protected too. Eric Staal is also someone they’d have to consider protecting. I expect some real movement from the Wild this year.

The Oilers should really try to lean on Wild GM Chuck Fletcher this year to get a good talent for a bargain price but from the sounds of how things went at the draft, I’d be surprised if Chiarelli could come to an agreement on a deal with Fletcher. Especially after what Shero did getting Hall for Larsson. (God I hope Larsson turns out to be the next Charlie Huddy or something similar)

WINNIPEG (link)

Ben Chariot – Dustin Byfuglien
Toby Enstrom – Tyler Myers
Mark Stuart – Jacob Trouba
– Paul Postma

Josh Morrisey – Jan Kostalek
Julian Melchiori – Nelson Nogier
Brenden Kichton
Brian Strait

The Jets might be another team ripe for the picking… Wheeler and Little have clauses as well as Byfuglien, Enstrom, and Stuart. That only leaves them two spots to protect Myers, Trouba, or Scheifele…

So Micah does bring up a good point right? Do you think that the teams mentioned above are as handcuffed as Micah believes they are? Let us know in the comments below!


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Petrovic Rumours Redux

Last night I reported that a source close to the Oilers had reported to me that the Oilers were closing in on a deal that included Yakupov and Alex Petrovic. It seemed to cause a bit of a wave in the Oilogosphere because we’ve had pundits from Lowetide to Oil on Whyte to Bob Stauffer, Dustin Neilson, and Jason Gregor commenting on it on their radio shows.

Even folks in other hockey markets chimed in.

https://twitter.com/ThomasDrance/status/755401472934674432

I’ll be honest, when I seen that someone had posted in a facebook group that Petrovic and Stauffer had followed each other on Twitter, I thought to myself, “convenient…”.

But don’t give me credit, it all actually started with this tweet below about two hours before I posted my article.

The gentlemen who runs this Twitter account isn’t the fella who told me about the rumour but oddly enough he is followed by Alex Petrovic and his personal profile has a pic of him and Petrovic in the header pic… Maybe I’m just thinking too much though or maybe I’ve got too much time on my hands.

https://twitter.com/Boscorelli_HN/status/755256853169266688

Before I went to bed but a couple of hours after I had posted (remember I’m in Taipei) I was contacted by my source to tell me the rumoured deal was dead and in fact, right after that, I was also contacted by a high-profile member of OEG and questioned on what I had posted. I was told there was nothing to it and that I was “reaching”.

I can’t argue with that now can I? I don’t work for the Oilers or the OEG. I only write what I’ve been told, for which I’ll say I’ve been told, or I’ll write what I think. I don’t post things and say they’re real for shits and giggles. There are people out there that are much better than I who are actual journalists that do this for a living.

So that’s that. What was once a rumoured deal killed within hours of being told. These things happen folks. Sometimes you hit on one and sometimes you don’t but my personal belief is that there were indeed talks and I really do think that whatever deal that Chiarelli is trying to make, he’s trying his damnedest to get a 2nd rounder back so he can send it to Boston as compensation. I reckon that the “rumoured” deal might’ve fallen apart because Florida wouldn’t part with their 2nd round pick.

It’s funny though Jason Gregor said on his show that he thought Florida would have no reason to make that deal.He was so adamant about it too. Almost as surefooted as one would be if you told them Taylor Hall would be the one to be traded before Nugent-Hopkins and Eberle… Weird. Why would the Panthers was a winger that has been spinning his wheels for the past four seasons in exchange for a defenseman that is just coming into his own?

WelI I can give you three, nay! FOUR reasons:

  • Aaron Ekblad – RD
  • Jason Demers – RD
  • Mark Pysyk – RD
  • Linus Holtstrom – RD

There’s no room for the kid to play! There was room before Demers and Hultstrom were signed and Pysyk was traded for though… How would that make you feel if you were Petrovic, after coming off a sweet playoff performance and your organization signs three players to play in your spot? But maybe the Panthers would like to have five right-handed dmen on their roster for the expansion draft?

Here’s another reason:

Why wouldn’t the Panthers consider putting Yak up with Jagr and let him work his magic once again?

Bob Stauffer has said countless times since the season ended that Yakupov’s work ethic in practise needs to improve. What better mentor to give Yakupov than the hardest working legend in the game today?

How about another:

Right wing depth for the Panther is sitting at Jagr, Smith, Sceviour, and Thornton. Are you sure Yak wouldn’t fit in there at some point?

Florida would have no reason… Bullsh*t to that. I just gave you five, six if you count the last one.

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Oilers Talking to Panthers? Yak moving on?

I got word late last night from a source close to the team that the Florida Panthers have contacted the Edmonton Oilers regarding Nail Yakupov. The rumoured trade is being built around Yakupov, right-handed dman Alex Petrovic and a draft pick or picks could be coming back to the Oilers as well. The Oilers have also been talking to Brandon Pirri’s camp, I imagine he’d be Yak’s replacement if the Panthers deal goes through.

You can believe me or not but Bob Stauffer just started following Alex Petrovic’s Twitter account… Take it for what it is.

You might remember Alex Petrovic from his days with the Red Deer Rebels of the WHL or from his three-fight night last year vs Evander Kane. Check out the vid below… We’ll chat his stats and fancies after the clip.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyvvu_tH_wI

ALEX PETROVIC

BIRTHYEAR 1992-03-03 BIRTHPLACE Edmonton, AB, CAN
AGE 24 NATION Canada
POSITION D SHOOTS R
HEIGHT 194 cm / 6’4″ WEIGHT 93 kg / 205 lbs
YOUTH TEAM Maple Leaf Athletic Club CONTRACT 16/17
NHL DRAFT 2010 round 2 #36 overall by Florida Panthers
CAP HIT $1,050,000

info grabbed from eliteprospects.com

Thanks to our stats guy Walter Foddis (@Waltlaw69), he dug up these gems regarding Petrovic’s fancy stats.
  • Petrovic’s 1pt/60 ranked 29th in the NHL amongst dmen last year in pts/60

  • WOWYs are a little mixed, but does suggest he’s a complimentary Dman. Several top-6 forwards seem to be better with him than without him, but he’s no possession driver.

  • Petrovic’s TOI (16:57) seems to suggest a 5/6 role.

  • Petrovic’s IAP ranked 33rd last season. (IAP = Individual Assists Percentage = The % of goals scored while player was on ice that the player has an assist on).

  • So in reading Petrovic’s HERO chart, his upside his is ability to contribute to offense, through his passing. His playmaking is top-pairing, but his goal scoring is weak. His shot suppression (defense) is also weak.

From Hockey’s Future:

Petrovic is a gifted defenseman and an authoritative force in his own zone. He moves the puck well but it is in the physical game where he excels. He punishes opponents in the corners and intimidates attacking forwards. – source

From George Richards (Panthers beat writer):

A stay at home defenseman, Petrovic is good at breaking opponents away from the puck and kicking it out.

Petrovic can also play a physical game – something that’s going to get noticed by the Panthers. – source

MY THOUGHTS

If Eric Gryba isn’t coming or a dman of that ilk or better and this trade is just to pick up a young right-handed dman who the Oilers are okay with leaving unprotected in the expansion draft, I don’t see the harm. Both Yakupov and Petrovic will be RFAs at season’s end and a deal like this could be to open up a spot to get a shooting machine like Brandon Pirri in the lineup. Yak doesn’t seem to have the trust from the Oilers brass and coaching staff and even though Chia claims that there was never a trade request… There was and that’s still an ongoing process.

As for Petrovic the player, we know he’s a tough son of a bitch. Not the greatest fighter but sticks for his teammates. He’s got size and the intangibles that will piss off the analytic folk. But anything that makes it tougher for the opposition to play in the Oilers zone makes me a happy guy.

My question is, what is the Panthers end game here? They’ve got Jagr and Reilly Smith on the right-wing there at the moment. Do they grab a player with potential whilst his value is so low that they could expose him in the expansion draft and have him possibly skipped over because they’ve got a logjam on the right-side with Ekblad, Demers, and Pysyk? Thus try to build his value back up with the crazy amount talent and skill they have down the middle there? Cheap contract, right?

I’d be stoked for Yak if he was dealt to the Panthers, another young player for Jagr to mentor…

There was a bit of chatter in Lowetide’s comments section here regarding such a deal.

I’ll be interested to see what the new WoodMoney metric says about Petrovic 🙂

So what do you think about this? Would you accept this sort of deal if the Oilers had no intentions of putting Nail Yakupov in the top-6 this upcoming season?

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Hockey Desperately Needs a Better Competition Metric (Part 2 of 2)

EDMONTON, AB – OCTOBER 25: Connor McDavid #97 of the Edmonton Oilers battles for the puck against Drew Doughty #8 of the Los Angeles Kings on October 25, 2015 at Rexall Place in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. (Photo by Andy Devlin/NHLI via Getty Images)

This article is part 2 of 2.

In part 1, I noted that using shot metrics for evaluating individual players is heavily influenced by teammates, coaches usage (zone starts), and competition*.

I believe we have decent tools for understanding the effect of teammates and zone starts – but I believe this is not at all true for competition metrics (dubbed QoC, or Quality of Competition).

And the reality is that understanding competition is critical to using shot metrics for player evaluation. If current QoC measures are not good, this means QoC is a huge weakness in the use of shot metrics for player evaluation.

I believe this is the case.

Let’s see if I can make a convincing case for you!

*Truthfully, there are quite a few other contextual factors, like team, and score state. These shot metrics have been around for a decade plus, and they’ve been studied (and are now often adjusted) heavily. Some of the effects that have been identified can be quite subtle and counterintuitive. From the point of view of assessing *a* player on *a* team, it doesn’t hurt us to focus on these three factors.

It Just Doesn’t Matter – You’re Kidding, Right?

If you bring up Quality of Competition with many fancystats people, they’ll often look at you and flat out tell you that “quality of competition doesn’t matter.”

This response will surprise many – and frankly, it should.

We know competition matters.

We know that a player is going to have a way harder time facing Sidney Crosby than facing Tanner Glass.

We know that coaches gameplan to face Taylor Hall, not his roommate Luke Gazdic (so long, lads). And they gameplan primarily with player matchups.

Are our eyes and the coaches that far out to lunch?

Yes, say the fancystats. Because, they say, when you calculate quality of competition, you just don’t see that much difference in the level of competition faced by different players. Therefore, so conventional wisdom dictates, it doesn’t matter.

The Numbers Suggest Matchups Matter

I don’t have to rely on just the eye test to contradict this line of thought – the numbers do the work too. For example, here are the head to head matchup numbers (I trot these out as a textbook example of coaching matchups) for the three Montreal defense pairs against Edmonton from the game on February 7th, 2016:

vs

Hall

McDavid

Subban-Markov

~ 3 mins

~ 10 mins

Petry-Emelin

~ 8 mins

~ 5 mins

Gilbert-Barberio

~ 40 seconds

~ 14 seconds

Does that look like “Quality of Competition” doesn’t matter? It sure mattered for both Hall and McDavid, not to mention all three Montreal defense pairs. Fifteen minutes vs 14 seconds is not a coincidence. That was gameplanned.

So how do we reconcile this?

Let’s dig in and see why maybe conventional wisdom is just plain wrong – maybe the problem is not with the quality of competition but the way in which we measure it.

It Would Hit You Like Peter Gabriel’s Sledgehammer

I’ll start by showing you an extremely valuable tool for assessing players in the context of zone starts and QoC, which is Rob Vollman’s Player Usage Charts, often called sledgehammer charts.

This chart is for Oiler defensemen in 2015-2016:

This shows three of the four things we’ve talked about previously:

  • The bubble colour (blue good) shows the shot metrics balance of good/bad for that individual
  • The farther to the right the bubble, the more faceoffs a player was on the ice for in the offensive zone – favourable zone starts or coaches usage in other words
  • The higher the bubble, the tougher the Quality of Competition

Notice something about the QoC though. See how it has such a narrow range? The weakest guy on there is Clendening at -0.6. The toughest is Klefbom at a shade over 1.0.

If you’re not familiar with “CorsiRel” (I’ll explain later), take my word for it: that’s not a very meaningful range. If you told me Player A has a CorsiRel of 1.0, and another has a CorsiRel of 0.0, I wouldn’t ascribe a lot of value to that difference. Yet that range easily encompasses 8 of the 11 defenders on the chart.

So no wonder the fancystatters say QoC doesn’t matter. The entire range we see, for a full season for an entire defensive corps worst to last, is a very small difference. Clendening basically faced barely weaker competition than did Klefbom.

Or did he?  That doesn’t sound right, does it?  Yeah, the Oiler D was a tire fire and injuries played havoc – but Todd McLellan wasn’t sending Clendening out to face Joe Thornton if he could help it.

To figure out what might be wrong, let’s dig in to see how we come up with these numbers that show such a thin margin of difference.

Time Weighs On Me

The process for calculating a QoC metric starts by assigning every player in the league a value that reflects how tough they are as competition.

Then when we need the QoC level faced by a particular player:

  • we look at all the players he faced, multiply (weight) the amount of time spent against that player with the competition value of that player
  • we add it all up, and presto, you have a QoC measure for the given player

Assuming that the time on ice calculations are reasonably fixed by, you know, time on ice, it should be clear that the validity of this QoC metric is almost entirely dependent on the validity of the ‘competition value’ assigned to each player.

If that competition value isn’t good, then you have a GIGO (garbage in garbage out) situation, and your QoC metric isn’t going to work either.

There are three different data values that are commonly used for calculating a QoC metric, so let’s take a look at each one and see if it meets the test of validity.

Using Corsi for Qoc

Many fancystats people who feel that QoC doesn’t matter will point to this post by Eric Tulsky to justify their reasoning.

Tulsky (now employed by the Hurricanes) is very, very smart, and one of the pillars of the hockey fancystats movement. He’s as important and influential as Vic Ferarri (Tim Barnes), JLikens (Tore Purdy), Gabe Desjardins, and mc79hockey (Tyler Dellow). So when he speaks – we listen.

The money quote in his piece is this:

Everyone faces opponents with both good and bad shot differential, and the differences in time spent against various strength opponents by these metrics are minimal.

Yet all that said – I think Tulsky’s conclusions in that post on QoC are wrong. I would assert that the problem he encounters, and the reason he gets the poor results that he does, is that he uses a player’s raw Corsi (shot differential) as the sole ‘competition value’ measure.

All his metric does is tell you is how a player did against other players of varying good and bad shot differential. It actually does a poor job of telling you the quality of the players faced, which is the leap of faith being made. Yet the leap is unjustified, because players of much, much different ability can have the same raw Corsi score.

To test that, we can rank all the players last season by raw Corsi, and here’s a few of the problems we immediately see:

  • Patrice Cormier (played two games for WPG) is the toughest competition in the league
  • He’s joined in the Top 10 by E Rodrigues, Sgarbossa, J Welsh, Dowd, Poirier, Brown, Tangradi, Witkowski, and Forbort.
  • Mark Arcobello is in the top 20, approximately 25 spots ahead of Joe Thornton
  • Anze Kopitar just signed for $10MM/yr while everyone nodded their head in agreement – while Cody Hodgson might have to look for work in Europe, and this will garner the same reaction. Yet using raw Corsi as the measure, they are the same level of competition (57.5%)
  • Chris Kunitz is about 55th on the list – approximately 40 spots ahead of Sidney Crosby
  • Don’t feel bad, Sid – at least you’re miles ahead of Kessel, Jamie Benn, and Nikita Nikitin – who is himself several spots above Brent Burns and Alex Ovechkin.

*Note: all data sourced from the outstanding site corsica.hockey. Pull up the league’s players, sort them using the factors above for the 2015-2016 season, and you should be able to recreate everything I’m describing above.

I could go on, but you get the picture, right? The busts I’ve listed are not rare. They’re all over the place.

Now, why might we be seeing these really strange results?

  • Sample size!  Poor players play little, and that means their shot metrics can jump all over the place.  Play two minutes, have your line get two shots and give up one shot, and raw Corsi will anoint you one of the toughest players in the league. We can account for this when looking at the data, but computationally it can wreak havoc if unaccounted for.
  • Even with large sample sizes, you can get very minimal difference in shot differential between very different players because of coaches matching lines and playing “like vs like”. The best players tend to play against the best players and their Corsi is limited due to playing against the best. Similarly, mediocre players tend to play against mediocre players and their Corsi is inflated accordingly. It’s part of the problem we’re trying to solve!
  • For that same reason, raw Corsi tends to overinflate the value of 3rd pairing Dmen, because they so often are playing against stick-optional players who are Corsi black holes.
  • The raw Corsi number is heavily influenced by the quality of the team around a player.

Corsi is a highly valuable statistic, particularly as a counterpoint to more traditional measures like boxcars. But as a standalone measure for gauging the value of a player, it is deeply flawed. Any statistic that uses raw Corsi as its only measure of quality is going to fail. GIGO, remember?

Knowing what we know – is it a surprise that Tulsky got the results he got?

So we should go ahead and rule out using raw Corsi as a useful basis for QoC.

Using Relative Corsi for QoC

If you aren’t familiar with RelCorsi, it’s pretty simple: instead of using a raw number, for each player we just take the number ‘relative’ to the teams numbers.

For example, a player with a raw Corsi of 52 but on a team that is at 54 will get a -2, while a player with a raw Corsi of 48 will get a +2 if his team is at 46.

The idea here is good players on bad teams tend to get hammered on Corsi, while bad players on good teams tend to get a boost. So we cover that off by looking at how good a player is relative to their team.

Using RelCor as the basis for a QoC metric does in general appear to produce better results. When you look at a list of players using RelCor to sort them, the cream seems to be more likely to rise to the top.

Still, if you pull up a table of players sorted by RelCor (the Vollman sledgehammer I posted earlier uses this metric as its base for QoC), again you very quickly start to see the issues:

  • Our top 10 is once again a murderers row of Vitale, Sgarbossa, Corey Power Potter Play, Rodrigues, Brown, Tangradi, Poirier, Cormier, Welsh, and Strachan.
  • Of all the players with regular ice time, officially your toughest competition is Nino Niederreiter.  Nino?  No no!
  • Top defenders Karlsson and Hedman are right up there, but they are followed closely by R Pulock and D Pouliot, well ahead of say OEL and Doughty.
  • Poor Sid, he can’t even crack the Top 100 this time.

Again, if we try and deconstruct why we get these wonky results, it suggests two significant flaws:

  • Coach’s deployment. Who a player plays and when they play is a major driver of RelCor. You can see this once again with 3rd pairing D men, whose RelCor, like their raw Corsi, is often inflated.
  • The depth of the team. Good players on deep teams tend to have weaker RelCors than those on bad teams (the opposite of the raw Corsi effect). This is why Nicklas Backstrom (+1.97) and Sam Gagner (+1.95) can have very similar RelCor numbers while being vastly different to play against.

RelCor is a very valuable metric in the right context, but suffers terribly as a standalone metric for gauging the value of a player.

Like raw Corsi, despite its widespread use we should rule out relative Corsi as a useful standalone basis for QoC.

Using 5v5 TOI for QoC

This is probably the most widely used (and arguably best) tool for delineating QoC. This was also pioneered by the venerable Eric Tulsky.

When we sort a list of players using the aggregated TOI per game of their “average” opponent, we see the cream tend to rise to the top even moreso than with RelCor.

And analyzing the data under the hood used to generate this QoC, our top three “toughest competition” players are now Ryan Suter, Erik Karlsson, and Drew Doughty. Sounding good, right?

But like with the two Corsi measures, if you look at the ratings using this measure, you can still see problematic results all over, with clearly poor players ranked ahead of good players quite often. For example:

  • The top of the list is all defensemen.
  • Our best forward is Evander Kane, at #105. Next up are Patrick Kane (123rd), John Tavares (134th), and Taylor Hall (144th). All top notch players, but the ranking is problematic to say the least. Especially when you see Roman Polak at 124th.
  • Even among defensemen, is Subban really on par with Michael del Zotto? Is Jordan Oesterle the same as OEL? Is Kris Russel so much better than Giordano, Vlasic, and Muzzin?
  • Poor old Crosby is still not in the Top 100, although he finally is when you look at just forwards.
  • Nuge is finally living up to his potential, though, ahead of Duchene and Stamkos!

OK, I’ll stop there. You get my point. This isn’t the occasional cherry picked bust, you can see odd results like this all over.

Looking at the reasons for these busts, you see at least two clear reasons:

  • Poor defensemen generally get as much or more time on ice than do very good forwards. Putting all players regardless of position on the same TOI scale simply doesn’t work. (Just imagine if we included goaltenders in this list – even the worst goalies would of course skyrocket to the top of the list).
  • Depth of roster has a significant effect as well. Poor players on bad teams get lots of ice time – it’s a big part of what makes them bad teams after all. Coaches also have favourites or assign sideburns to players for reasons other than hockeying (e.g. Justin Schultz and the Oilers is arguably a good example of both weak depth of roster and coach’s favoritism).

So once again, we find ourselves concluding that the underlying measure to this QoC, TOI, tells you a lot about a player, but there are very real concerns in using it as a standalone measure.

Another problem shows up when we actually try to use this measure in the context of QoC: competition blending.

As a player moves up and down the roster (due to injuries or coaches preference) their QoC changes. At the end of the year we are left with one number to evaluate their QoC but if this roster shuttling has happened, that one number doesn’t represent who they actually played very well.

A good example of the blending problem is Mark Fayne during this past year.  When you look at his overall TOIQoC, he is either 1 or 2 on the Oilers, denoting that he had the toughest matchups.

His overall CF% was also 49.4%, so a reasonable conclusion was that “he held his own against the best”.  Turns out – it wasn’t really true.  He got shredded like coleslaw against the tough matchups.

Down the road, Woodguy (@Woodguy55) and I will show you why this is not really true, and that it is a failing of TOIC as a metric. It tells us how much TOI a player’s average opponent had, but it doesn’t tell us anything more.  We’re left to guess, with the information often pointing us in the wrong direction.

A Malfunction in the Metric

Let’s review what we’ve discussed and found so far:

  • QoC measures as currently used do not show a large differentiation in the competition faced by NHL players. This is often at odds with observed head to head matchups.
  • Even when they do show a difference, they give us no context on how to use that to adjust the varying shot metrics results that we see. Does an increase of 0.5 QoC make up for a 3% Corsi differential between players?  Remember from Part 1 that understanding the context of competition is critical to assessing the performance of the player.  Now we have a number – but it doesn’t really help.
  • The three metrics most commonly used as the basis for QoC are demonstrably poor when used as a standalone measure of ‘quality’ of player.
  • So it should be no surprise that assessments using these QoC measures produce results at odds with observation.
  • Do those odd results reflect reality on the ice, or a malfunction in the metric? Looking in depth at the underlying measures, the principle of GIGO suggests it may very well be the metric that is at fault.

Which leaves us … where?

We know competition is a critical contextual aspect of using shot metrics to evaluate players.

But our current QoC metrics appear to be built on a foundation of sand.

Hockey desperately needs a better competition metric.

Now lest this article seem like one long shrill complaint, or cry for help … it’s not. It’s setting the background for a QoC project that Woodguy and I have been working on for quite some time.

Hopefully we’ll convince you there is an answer to this problem, but it requires approaching QoC in an entirely different way.

Stay tuned!

P.S.

And the next time someone tells you “quality of competition doesn’t matter”, you tell them that “common QoC metrics are built on poor foundational metrics that cannot be used in isolation for measuring the quality of players. Ever hear of GIGO?”

Then drop the mic and walk.

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